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Post by irishconfederate on Apr 30, 2017 14:19:31 GMT
I believe that this is a forum for the all the Irish people whatever their contemporary identities and convictions: Atheist, Christian, Pro-Choice, Pro-life, Jew, Catholic, Socialist, Muslim, Rural, Town....The Irish need to be united in order to tackle their problems and so we need to nurture a common distinctive identity that binds us in the world. We need to agree on something. Where the Irish are divided, we are potentially conquered so we need some unity on something. We need to build bridges where there is now enmity. We need to work out the thought and vision which binds us together.
'For the first time in my recollection, Catholic and Protestant, Unionist and Nationalist, landlord and tenant, priest and parson, all work hand in hand in the interest of Ireland's life and intellectuality.' Douglas Hyde
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Post by Young Ireland on May 2, 2017 21:22:04 GMT
I definitely think that a federal solution is the only way in which a United Ireland can be achieved. There is no way that the Unionists will accept rule from Dublin with little in return. Moreover, even if devolution applied only to Stormont initially, a precedent will have been set, and it will be more difficult to justify not permitting greater devolution at a local level, since people will look North and say why we can't have that here?
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Post by irishconfederate on May 6, 2017 14:17:59 GMT
In other European countries their nationalities include both pro-life and pro-choice people. In Ireland it's a little different as our last identity was built partly on representing the nation as largely being Catholic and that identity has since disintergrated. Ireland presently is struggling to find a distinct and binding identity for her members with diverse convictions and identities. I believe federalism with other aspects of Irish identity like, 'we are a maritime nation', 'we are a literary nation', 'we are neutral', 'we are a nation which has had a long freedom struggle', etc can provide that pluralist Irish identity which embraces all the different kinds of people in Ireland or, at the least, most of them. Can we imagine Jew, Catholic, Protestant, Muslim, Atheist uniting in a representative Irish identity today?
With regard to pro-choice and pro-lifers uniting in the present but this can apply to other identities and convictions, would creative solutions need to be found in order to maintain a common ground between them in political institutions so that they can work together whilst still presenting their pro-life or pro-choice convictions? How would that work? I presume the political party Direct Democracy Ireland currently unites Irish people with different convictions as they hold that the will of the people exercised with greater or lesser provision of direct democracy should prevail. But can such a policy bring about a truce between the greater number of persons with pro-life and pro-choice convictions? I believe a lot of creative work will have to be done to work this one out. I think criticism of the prevailing structures of government and what I believe is an authoritarian situation in Ireland can be a glue which can help maintain people together in a cause for a common identity.
'For the first time in my recollection, Catholic and Protestant, Unionist and Nationalist, landlord and tenant, priest and parson, all work hand in hand in the interest of Ireland's life and intellectuality.' Douglas Hyde
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Post by Assisi on May 9, 2017 20:50:42 GMT
I honestly think it is impossible to accommodate opposites such as pro-life or pro-choice, only one will prevail at any given time in a country. In most European countries pro-choice (i.e. abortion) prevails and the the pro life people will not be content with that; only one side can be happy in their culture with that scenario, the other has to accept it or try to change the law.
The binding identity may be found in broad brush notions like a 'literary nation', a 'musical nation', a 'friendly nation' etc. but there is a risk that this is so general that it is vague and has little real binding glue. France, England, Russia, Italy, Spain, Germany and many others would consider their nations as literary also.
The problem is that we have been a Christian nation for 1500 years and we are now experiencing an attempt to change to a secular Republic. The Christian ethos was undoubtedly strong and binding both for Catholic and Protestant in Ireland within their own tribes. Our current culture has not yet established itself as it attempts to transition. It would appear to be a globalist endeavour aimed at allowing individuals to pursue their own versions of reality. It will be consumerist and permissive. In many ways it will not be interested in the larger narratives such as God, national history or traditions. It will be geared towards the individual rather than communities. It will be very difficult to establish a distinct and shared culture in that type of atmosphere other than global interests such as climate change and shared leisure pursuits (Hollywood movies, sports teams and music celebs).
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Post by Young Ireland on May 9, 2017 21:24:30 GMT
I honestly think it is impossible to accommodate opposites such as pro-life or pro-choice, only one will prevail at any given time in a country. In most European countries pro-choice (i.e. abortion) prevails and the the pro life people will not be content with that; only one side can be happy in their culture with that scenario, the other has to accept it or try to change the law. The binding identity may be found in broad brush notions like a 'literary nation', a 'musical nation', a 'friendly nation' etc. but there is a risk that this is so general that it is vague and has little real binding glue. France, England, Russia, Italy, Spain, Germany and many others would consider their nations as literary also. The problem is that we have been a Christian nation for 1500 years and we are now experiencing an attempt to change to a secular Republic. The Christian ethos was undoubtedly strong and binding both for Catholic and Protestant in Ireland within their own tribes. Our current culture has not yet established itself as it attempts to transition. It would appear to be a globalist endeavour aimed at allowing individuals to pursue their own versions of reality. It will be consumerist and permissive. In many ways it will not be interested in the larger narratives such as God, national history or traditions. It will be geared towards the individual rather than communities. It will be very difficult to establish a distinct and shared culture in that type of atmosphere other than global interests such as climate change and shared leisure pursuits (Hollywood movies, sports teams and music celebs). I am afraid that I have to agree with Assisi here. There ultimately can be no compromise as far as the issue of abortion is concerned. As it happens, I would support a federal Ireland, or at least greater devolution in itself, without necessarily an accompanying identity. I would be quite as happy to bring this about incrementally using the present system as opposed to starting afresh. |
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